The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Aug 2, 2022 23:08:36 GMT -5
How do you feel when a low-ranked fighter wins a tournament and gets a title shot?
Positive, maybe because of any of the following: - Excited - because underdog stories are fun and exciting - Encouraged - because you are only ever 2-3 wins away from a title fight - Optimistic - new contenders mean new upgrades and new legit challengers - Hopeful - you have more chances at a title fight - EZ - because you have a champ and like easy title defences
Negative, maybe because of any of the following: - Bored - because these underdogs clearly will not beat the champ - Discouraged - because your underdog lost/will lose embarrassingly to the champ - Frustrated - because you feel better fighters deserve a shot - Agitated - because champion records are padded by beating unworthy fighters
Vote in this poll, receive a point.
Add a comment below, with a more detailed reply about how you feel about the whole thing, get an additional 2 points.
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Post by Team GAP on Aug 3, 2022 0:39:54 GMT -5
I think if someone wins a tourney they earned their shot... rather than having it given to them
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Aug 3, 2022 4:39:34 GMT -5
I think if someone wins a tourney they earned their shot... rather than having it given to them It's not being given to them. They're still earning it. Nobody is going to fight for the belt coming off a loss unless it's Survivor Series. We're running out of options here because half of divisions are on losing streaks, and four guys need to be in a tournament at a time. Plus guys like Jon Fitch who are ranked 4 never make it to a title fight because he always loses to 1, 2, or 3 in the tournaments. Fitch should have had a shot by now before guys like Usman and Poirier have fought for it like three times.
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Post by The Chosen Ones on Aug 3, 2022 6:21:47 GMT -5
I think if someone wins a tourney they earned their shot... rather than having it given to them It's not being given to them. They're still earning it. Nobody is going to fight for the belt coming off a loss unless it's Survivor Series. We're running out of options here because half of divisions are on losing streaks, and four guys need to be in a tournament at a time. Plus guys like Jon Fitch who are ranked 4 never make it to a title fight because he always loses to 1, 2, or 3 in the tournaments. Fitch should have had a shot by now before guys like Usman and Poirier have fought for it like three times. I agree with GAP here but what could be done differently is only ranked fighters can be in a tournament. You want to face the champ, you must be ranked. From there you can make it where it's like a best vs worst type of thing. Like 1 versus 20, 10 versus 11 in the same tournament. This way top guys are more likely to get the shot they deserve but if somebody in their tournament beats them then they have earned that title shot themselves.
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Aug 3, 2022 6:32:44 GMT -5
It's not being given to them. They're still earning it. Nobody is going to fight for the belt coming off a loss unless it's Survivor Series. We're running out of options here because half of divisions are on losing streaks, and four guys need to be in a tournament at a time. Plus guys like Jon Fitch who are ranked 4 never make it to a title fight because he always loses to 1, 2, or 3 in the tournaments. Fitch should have had a shot by now before guys like Usman and Poirier have fought for it like three times. I agree with GAP here but what could be done differently is only ranked fighters can be in a tournament. You want to face the champ, you must be ranked. From there you can make it where it's like a best vs worst type of thing. Like 1 versus 20, 10 versus 11 in the same tournament. This way top guys are more likely to get the shot they deserve but if somebody in their tournament beats them then they have earned that title shot themselves. If 20 beats 1, the rankings get bastardized, and it's already annoying enough when 20 beats like a 12.
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Post by The Chosen Ones on Aug 3, 2022 6:36:01 GMT -5
I agree with GAP here but what could be done differently is only ranked fighters can be in a tournament. You want to face the champ, you must be ranked. From there you can make it where it's like a best vs worst type of thing. Like 1 versus 20, 10 versus 11 in the same tournament. This way top guys are more likely to get the shot they deserve but if somebody in their tournament beats them then they have earned that title shot themselves. If 20 beats 1, the rankings get bastardized, and it's already annoying enough when 20 beats like a 12. If 20 beats 1, that's fair and square. Ideally 1 will always win that matchup but if 20 beats them then that's their fault.
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Aug 3, 2022 6:51:56 GMT -5
If 20 beats 1, the rankings get bastardized, and it's already annoying enough when 20 beats like a 12. If 20 beats 1, that's fair and square. Ideally 1 will always win that matchup but if 20 beats them then that's their fault. Sure, but that fight should never happen outside of special circumstances. 20 doesn't deserve to leap frog over 19-2. Otherwise we should just get rid of rankings.
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Post by The Chosen Ones on Aug 3, 2022 6:54:31 GMT -5
If 20 beats 1, that's fair and square. Ideally 1 will always win that matchup but if 20 beats them then that's their fault. Sure, but that fight should never happen outside of special circumstances. 20 doesn't deserve to leap frog over 19-2. Otherwise we should just get rid of rankings. It's not a leapfrog. It's how you line up the tournaments so you don't have the top 4 fighters fighting eachother for the title shot. It's how you ensure the best of the best get the best opportunity to do so but if a lower ranked fighter beats them then they won their shot fair and square.
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Aug 3, 2022 7:07:48 GMT -5
Sure, but that fight should never happen outside of special circumstances. 20 doesn't deserve to leap frog over 19-2. Otherwise we should just get rid of rankings. It's not a leapfrog. It's how you line up the tournaments so you don't have the top 4 fighters fighting eachother for the title shot. It's how you ensure the best of the best get the best opportunity to do so but if a lower ranked fighter beats them then they won their shot fair and square. So now you're saying the problem lies with the booking of the tournaments? What people don't get is tournaments would still exist the same way they do now, they would just be presented differently. Right now, we have a tournament for the flyweight title, where the highest ranked fighter is 9, and the lowest person isn't even ranked. The champions have been super dominant, and they should be defending against the best possible fighters, not against these joke tournament winners for the sake of calling the fights a tournament. Because unless one of the fighters in that tournament gets 50+ upgrades, none of them will touch JJ, or anyone in the top 5 at all for that matter. It's the same issue with other weights. The only weight that isn't an issue right now, in my opinion, is Lightweight. That's where we have most of the depth, and the title is constantly changing hands.
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Post by The Chosen Ones on Aug 3, 2022 8:57:50 GMT -5
Justin: Please give us your opinion on this!
*Gives opinion*
Austin: You’re an idiot, shut up and sit down!
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Post by The Broad Street Bullies on Aug 3, 2022 10:32:06 GMT -5
I've always thought seeing a long-shot pull of a deep run to get a title shot was fun, and seeing if a potential upset could happen.
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Aug 3, 2022 10:54:12 GMT -5
Justin: Please give us your opinion on this! *Gives opinion* Austin: You’re an idiot, shut up and sit down! I'm simply giving my point of view.
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Post by The Rocketmen on Aug 3, 2022 16:56:46 GMT -5
I don't really care about tournaments. I like rankings and I like seeing different people get title shots. If we are having issues with tournaments leading to the exact same people over and over again and then losing to the champion I can see that getting pretty stale. I would rather hand-picked fighters based on Predetermined number one contender fights as a main event on different cards. Like if the champion just beat a guy ranked first second and third then I want to see you the next card be a fight between the guy ranked fourth and fifth to get the next title shot rather than going through a tournament. But I also don't mind a tournament also happening on the side of that for the next underdog or whatever. Basically if you want to start doing a mix I would be cool with that. If you want to get rid of tournaments entirely I would also be OK with that.
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Post by Team GAP on Aug 3, 2022 23:07:57 GMT -5
If the title shots are based on contention.... i dont want people challenging for contention. Its unfair to everyone else. Dont wanr people to lose out on oil because they arent the squeaky wheel.
For example: khabib challenges diego and beats diego. Khabib gets a title shot. But rory macdonald is now not getting a shot due to the challenge... its not fair to rory. (Sorry to bring this recent stuff up just needed to use it as an example)
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Aug 3, 2022 23:25:57 GMT -5
If the title shots are based on contention.... i dont want people challenging for contention. Its unfair to everyone else. Dont wanr people to lose out on oil because they arent the squeaky wheel. For example: khabib challenges diego and beats diego. Khabib gets a title shot. But rory macdonald is now not getting a shot due to the challenge... its not fair to rory. (Sorry to bring this recent stuff up just needed to use it as an example) Agree completely. Right now, at any given time, I believe the next 2 challengers for a belt are established at almost all times. I would probably have something like that in place to help avoid this, but also so people know in advance that they have a title shot coming up, and can upgrade accordingly. Really, I think we all just want to see people who deserve title shots, get title shots. And champions have a chance to meaningfully fight all of the best fighters teams have to offer. I think the season 4 experiment will accommodate that. And as I said in that thread, if it doesn't, we can flip back to this for Season 5. And even then, after a season of upgrading, it's possible our tournaments will be more competitive, and our rankings closer by then, so we might even be able to come back to this method naturally. Time, as they say, will time.
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