DSotR - Plane Ride From Hell - Discussion

Helicoptering your dick towards me would be offensive.

Instead of imagining Ric Flair corners YOU, imagine you are 5 feet tall, and he is cornering you. Or, more aptly, imagine the guy cornering you with his dick swinging at you is the Big Show, or Brock Lesnar. It's easy for we dudes to talk about what we would do because we are rarely 1-2 feet shorter than someone who has 3 times our muscle mass. It's an overall life experience we really cannot fully empathize with, no matter how much we try.

This had been an interesting read… and for once I’m not sure what to say about it.

I watched parts but not all of the episode- I can say that on first watch that while I thought Tommy Dreamer was an idiot and an ass, it did feel to me like some guy defending his friend because he hadn’t witnessed him sexually assaulting a woman himself.

I thought “wow the people of the internet are overreacting again”

But then I got discussing and thinking about it and reading this thread and I will now say this:

I accepted that a guy would defend his friend and loudly insist that his friend wasn’t a perpetrator because that’s what men do- I’m literally so accustomed to men defending other men who have been inappropriate because they are “good guys” that I don’t even see it as a part of the problem. But IT IS.

The thing is “good guys” get away with shitty behaviour that intimidates, threatens, and sexually harasses others ALL THE TIME. I guarantee that the retired RCMP officer who commented on my body and asked me to marry him daily was “a good guy” who “just likes to flirt “

I guarantee the guy who pinched my ass in a crowded casino floor was a “good guy” to his wife, and the other couple he was with.

The man who dropped by my work to find out more about our business and proceeded to lear at my breasts, only to comment on them, and then when I told him “you know what, we aren’t interested in your wife living here- I don’t think you’d be a good fit” he said I should “take a compliment and not dress like a whore if I didn’t want men to compliment me” was definitely a “good guy” to his golfing buddies.

I’ve listed only the most mild examples here. I know that if I called any of these men out on their shitty behaviour that I would be told how he’s a “good guy” and he didn’t mean it that way ect ect. And it would be by his friends/male coworkers/bosses and here’s why- he probably is a good guy to THEM. They don’t need to worry about his he always crowds their space when walking through the same door as them, they don’t feel threatened when he asks some woman at the restaurant if she’s going to be outside for a smoke later, they don’t weigh 50-100lbs less then he does and they reasonably believe they are of similar physical strengths and could hold their own in a fight. Plus they KNOW their friends know they are “good guys”.

I’d just ask as a group of people (men) who have an actual chance to change things- that if your friend is accused of being a creep- think before you defend. Maybe he was unintentionally a creep (like they guy who waited till we were alone in the elevator to hit on me) or maybe he just doesn’t get why his behaviour makes a woman uncomfortable after all he wouldn’t feel threatened if someone whistled at him. But chances are somewhere along the way he was a bit or a lot of a creep- because believe me it’s not worth hearing what a “good guy” he is if he wasn’t.

To further my point about it being editing on the DSotR folks, even RVD has come out and said it was 'creative editing' too.

www.ringsidenews.com/2021/09/21/rvd-says-dark-side-of-the-ring-used-creative-editing/

Personally... i think if you are more concerned about what Tommy Dreamer said.. then what Ric Flair did or Scott Hall did... then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. We should all be disgusted at what was done rather than what was said in a documentary. Tommy dreamer voiced an opinion... but alot was done and Ric Flair was given a pass.. Ric Flair by getting a pass was essentially told it is ok to sexually assault someone. By not being charged Ric flair was told its ok to sexually assault someone again. It is not OK.. its never ok.. Nobody is getting mad at Ric Flair it seems.. THIS UPSETS ME!! Im not mad at Tommy he voiced his insights to what happened.. he voiced questions he had about how things went down after the plane ride was over. I AM mad at sexual predators. I am mad at sexual assault. Im disappointed in my childhood heros because they have stopped being my hero and they have become my villains.

This is all spot-on. Maybe part of the reason fewer people are on about the Flair stuff is it's not new information. People declared Flair an irredeemable piece of shit when his 30 for 30 Documentary came out, since it covered most of this same stuff, but also how much of a piece of shit he was to his wife and family.

Hall is a complicated one that probably does deserve some discussion here. We all know Hall was fucked out of his mind pretty bad during, and before, that era of his career. And he was fired, thus faced consequences. And almost died from drugs many times. It could be argued he has paid for his offenses. This does nothing for his victim(s), obviously, and I would rather they get assistance, and closer in whjatever form that may come in, than Hall be punished.

But I think for me, when it comes to Dreamer, and Dustin Rhodes, and as @kruze said, even RVD, they are the ones we talk about (or should be talking about) because we did not expect this of them. In Dreamers case, it opens the door for a discussion about everything x - ferocity said. About protectionist douche-bro culture, about the many sides of predators, and even about how the seemingly innocuous "funny" behaviour that is normal to one might be terrifying to another. I think these discussions give us room to learn and grow, and I think that is why I am most interested in Dreamer. He can be educated and learn and grow, as can others.

10 out of 10 Flair is an asshole, with inexplicable immunity. Now that he is less relevant and powerful, I think we will see more of these consequences. But you are right. What didn't happen to him at the time was, and still is, absolute bullshit.