The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
|
Post by The Sandman on Mar 8, 2022 13:47:24 GMT -5
Unrelated, if anyone is on the fence, I'll just toss in that my job is slightly easier without the opponent-selection lists, so if I had a vote, it would likely be for option 2.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 8, 2022 16:07:50 GMT -5
I'm honestly good with whatever the setup is, but I basically selected to beat down Texas, and failed lol
|
|
The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
|
Post by The Sandman on Mar 9, 2022 2:26:05 GMT -5
Honestly, at this point since only about 2 people send in opponent lists a year, and Phoenix FC is making my life hell cares so passionately about this, I'm tempted to just drop the poll and revert back to the seed-based matchups moving forward. I'll sleep on it and see where we are at later. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 2:50:43 GMT -5
Honestly, at this point since only about 2 people send in opponent lists a year, and Phoenix FC is making my life hell cares so passionately about this, I'm tempted to just drop the poll and revert back to the seed-based matchups moving forward. I'll sleep on it and see where we are at later. Making your life hell? 🤨 lol I think I've been rather civil with this issue considering other things I've gotten worked up about... ...and got banned for. 🤔🤷😜😂😂 |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 11:03:06 GMT -5
What if we did the lists only for the first round and then the seeding takes over in subsequent rounds? I feel like that would be less messy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 12:28:49 GMT -5
What if we did the lists only for the first round and then the seeding takes over in subsequent rounds? I feel like that would be less messy. It's already a mess though... That's just it. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally understand the rivalries aspect of it, but, upon my own further review of it, it can/could/will be used as a cheating tool to ensure a victory in any round for these top teams that might get a bad match up cuz they have a bunch of champions or if there's a lower ranked team that may have a couple/few better fighters than the top teams... and that's not really fair to anyone, least of all the lower ranked teams or the team(s) being handpicked by the top teams. I don't know how to explain it better than that. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 12:34:09 GMT -5
What if we did the lists only for the first round and then the seeding takes over in subsequent rounds? I feel like that would be less messy. It's already a mess though... That's just it. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally understand the rivalries aspect of it, but, upon my own further review of it, it can/could/will be used as a cheating tool to ensure a victory in any round for these top teams that might get a bad match up cuz they have a bunch of champions or if there's a lower ranked team that may have a couple/few better fighters than the top teams... and that's not really fair to anyone, least of all the lower ranked teams or the team(s) being handpicked by the top teams. I don't know how to explain it better than that. I understand your concerns, but I don't really see them coming to fruition. Teams submit a list without knowing who will be champion at that time, what their GP lineup will be, or when that team plans to upgrade a bunch of their guys. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 12:46:34 GMT -5
It's already a mess though... That's just it. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally understand the rivalries aspect of it, but, upon my own further review of it, it can/could/will be used as a cheating tool to ensure a victory in any round for these top teams that might get a bad match up cuz they have a bunch of champions or if there's a lower ranked team that may have a couple/few better fighters than the top teams... and that's not really fair to anyone, least of all the lower ranked teams or the team(s) being handpicked by the top teams. I don't know how to explain it better than that. I understand your concerns, but I don't really see them coming to fruition. Teams submit a list without knowing who will be champion at that time, what their GP lineup will be, or when that team plans to upgrade a bunch of their guys. That's not accurate at all, because 1) you CAN actually anticipate who's going to be champions/have champions, and who's not. And 2) now that this issue has been exposed, whether folks were thinking of it or not, they now know it can be exploited in that way, and guarn-damn-tee you that someone will, if they haven't already cuz that's literally, at the base of it, what the spirit if that "rule" actually is. Especially if you're going to cite the NBA, NHL & NFL, etc. as "looking at" doing this as some sort of basis to allow this crap, when none of them have implemented it nor are even close to implementing it, because, in and of itself, it's a cheat. Win on your own merits instead of having a crutch so you can potentially coast through any round. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 12:59:30 GMT -5
I understand your concerns, but I don't really see them coming to fruition. Teams submit a list without knowing who will be champion at that time, what their GP lineup will be, or when that team plans to upgrade a bunch of their guys. That's not accurate at all, because 1) you CAN actually anticipate who's going to be champions/have champions, and who's not. And 2) now that this issue has been exposed, whether folks were thinking of it or not, they now know it can be exploited in that way, and guarn-damn-tee you that someone will, if they haven't already cuz that's literally, at the base of it, what the spirit if that "rule" actually is. Especially if you're going to cite the NBA, NHL & NFL, etc. as "looking at" doing this as some sort of basis to allow this crap, when none of them have implemented it nor are even close to implementing it, because, in and of itself, it's a cheat. Win on your own merits instead of having a crutch so you can potentially coast through any round. There is no such thing as coasting through any round in the Grand Prix, and nobody ever knows for sure who is going to win every fight. The only time people get to even resemble coasting through, is when multiple people don't submit lists and the 13 seed makes the GP. Also, according to The Sandman, only a few people even submit a list when submitting GP lists anyway, so if you think people are really going to take the time to look at everyone's roster, then look at their champions, look who they're fighting at Zenith, and then hope their champs retain, because once Zenith is posted, the list is locked in. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 13:28:54 GMT -5
That's not accurate at all, because 1) you CAN actually anticipate who's going to be champions/have champions, and who's not. And 2) now that this issue has been exposed, whether folks were thinking of it or not, they now know it can be exploited in that way, and guarn-damn-tee you that someone will, if they haven't already cuz that's literally, at the base of it, what the spirit if that "rule" actually is. Especially if you're going to cite the NBA, NHL & NFL, etc. as "looking at" doing this as some sort of basis to allow this crap, when none of them have implemented it nor are even close to implementing it, because, in and of itself, it's a cheat. Win on your own merits instead of having a crutch so you can potentially coast through any round. There is no such thing as coasting through any round in the Grand Prix, and nobody ever knows for sure who is going to win every fight. The only time people get to even resemble coasting through, is when multiple people don't submit lists and the 13 seed makes the GP. Also, according to The Sandman, only a few people even submit a list when submitting GP lists anyway, so if you think people are really going to take the time to look at everyone's roster, then look at their champions, look who they're fighting at Zenith, and then hope their champs retain, because once Zenith is posted, the list is locked in. That's not true either since, if a top team can hand-pick an opponent, they literally can choose someone they know they have the number of and coast through any round not having to worry about maybe losing at all. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 13:33:32 GMT -5
There is no such thing as coasting through any round in the Grand Prix, and nobody ever knows for sure who is going to win every fight. The only time people get to even resemble coasting through, is when multiple people don't submit lists and the 13 seed makes the GP. Also, according to The Sandman, only a few people even submit a list when submitting GP lists anyway, so if you think people are really going to take the time to look at everyone's roster, then look at their champions, look who they're fighting at Zenith, and then hope their champs retain, because once Zenith is posted, the list is locked in. That's not true either since, if a top team can hand-pick an opponent, they literally can choose someone they know they have the number of and coast through any round not having to worry about maybe losing at all. Okay, they pick that team, and that team could be sitting on a bunch of points and power upgrade their guys. Like... if a team has THAT much of an advantage over someone, they're going to win anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 13:54:55 GMT -5
That's not true either since, if a top team can hand-pick an opponent, they literally can choose someone they know they have the number of and coast through any round not having to worry about maybe losing at all. Okay, they pick that team, and that team could be sitting on a bunch of points and power upgrade their guys. Like... if a team has THAT much of an advantage over someone, they're going to win anyway. There's also some folks, such as myself before all this happened, that don't even know that they can do a "priority list" 🙄 either. I thought it was straight seeding, and none of this hand-picking BS. If I had known about it, I wouldn't have sent in a list at all cuz it's a scam and a cheat when a top can pick who they're going to face in any round. Further to that, I've already told Sandman directly that, if this poll doesn't end up reverting it back to the straight seeding, I won't be participating in any subsequent GPs because, despite it being one of my favorite things about ManMMA, at that point the GP becomes a joke, and I'll want no part of it because it's not a fair process for anyone to be able hand-pick they're GP opponent, it makes seeding absolutely useless, and all it does is continue to promote keeping the top teams at the top and the bottom teams at the bottom... And that's not fun for me; it never has been. 🤷 But also to your point here, that's the choice of all GMs to do, or not do. Top teams shouldn't be given even more of an advantage than they already have by being a top seed and supposed to have a top team already. If they're a top team, then prove it by taking on whoever is thrown at you, instead of hand-picking your opponent and literally being able to ensure a victory, if you so choose to... Which you can do under this stupid system. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 14:05:49 GMT -5
Okay, they pick that team, and that team could be sitting on a bunch of points and power upgrade their guys. Like... if a team has THAT much of an advantage over someone, they're going to win anyway. There's also some folks, such as myself before all this happened, that don't even know that they can do a "priority list" 🙄 either. I thought it was straight seeding, and none of this hand-picking BS. If I had known about it, I wouldn't have sent in a list at all cuz it's a scam and a cheat when a top can pick who they're going to face in any round. Further to that, I've already told Sandman directly that, if this poll doesn't end up reverting it back to the straight seeding, I won't be participating in any subsequent GPs because, despite it being one of my favorite things about ManMMA, at that point the GP becomes a joke, and I'll want no part of it because it's not a fair process for anyone to be able hand-pick they're GP opponent, it makes seeding absolutely useless, and all it does is continue to promote keeping the top teams at the top and the bottom teams at the bottom... And that's not fun for me; it never has been. 🤷 But also to your point here, that's the choice of all GMs to do, or not do. Top teams shouldn't be given even more of an advantage than they already have by being a top seed and supposed to have a top team already. If they're a top team, then prove it by taking on whoever is thrown at you, instead of hand-picking your opponent and literally being able to ensure a victory, if you so choose to... Which you can do under this stupid system. I guess I'm just confused how it keeps top teams on top, and bottom teams on bottom. If it was only for the first round, the top teams wouldn't be able to run, and as you saw with Rocketmen, picking the team you're going to face doesn't always work out. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 14:37:01 GMT -5
There's also some folks, such as myself before all this happened, that don't even know that they can do a "priority list" 🙄 either. I thought it was straight seeding, and none of this hand-picking BS. If I had known about it, I wouldn't have sent in a list at all cuz it's a scam and a cheat when a top can pick who they're going to face in any round. Further to that, I've already told Sandman directly that, if this poll doesn't end up reverting it back to the straight seeding, I won't be participating in any subsequent GPs because, despite it being one of my favorite things about ManMMA, at that point the GP becomes a joke, and I'll want no part of it because it's not a fair process for anyone to be able hand-pick they're GP opponent, it makes seeding absolutely useless, and all it does is continue to promote keeping the top teams at the top and the bottom teams at the bottom... And that's not fun for me; it never has been. 🤷 But also to your point here, that's the choice of all GMs to do, or not do. Top teams shouldn't be given even more of an advantage than they already have by being a top seed and supposed to have a top team already. If they're a top team, then prove it by taking on whoever is thrown at you, instead of hand-picking your opponent and literally being able to ensure a victory, if you so choose to... Which you can do under this stupid system. I guess I'm just confused how it keeps top teams on top, and bottom teams on bottom. If it was only for the first round, the top teams wouldn't be able to run, and as you saw with Rocketmen, picking the team you're going to face doesn't always work out. Of course you're "confused" cuz you refuse to look at it objectively, and you're just naive enough to believe that there won't be anyone that will exploit that loophole to their advantage. 🤷 Trying to use Rocketmen as an "example" of it "not working out" is no example at all since he's usually always one of the first ones to throw people a bone whether it's to new members in giving them fighters or giving struggling teams a boost. So try again... |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 15:07:47 GMT -5
I guess I'm just confused how it keeps top teams on top, and bottom teams on bottom. If it was only for the first round, the top teams wouldn't be able to run, and as you saw with Rocketmen, picking the team you're going to face doesn't always work out. Of course you're "confused" cuz you refuse to look at it objectively, and you're just naive enough to believe that there won't be anyone that will exploit that loophole to their advantage. 🤷 Trying to use Rocketmen as an "example" of it not working out is no example at all since he's usually always one of the first ones to throw people a bone whether it's to new members in giving them fighters or giving struggling teams a boost. So try again... I'm confused because you keep saying it's happening without giving any examples. How does it keep top teams on top? In the last several Grand Prix's (including Era 1) the seeds that won have been pretty spread out. GP 1:  Texas Rattlesnakes GP 25:  The Sandmen GP 24:  Sons of Anarchy GP 23: The Sandmen GP 22:  The Texas Rattlesnakes GP 21:  The Sandmen GP 20: The Rocketmen GP 19:  Camp Cannon GP 18: Camp Cannon GP 17: The Sandmen GP 16: Broad Street Bullies GP 15: The Sandmen GP 14: The Sandmen GP 13:  Broad Street Bullies GP 12: Camp Cannon GP 11:  Canadian Bulldozers GP 10: The Sandmen GP 9: Team 3lite 1 Seed: Three times 2 Seed: Two times 3 Seed: Three times 4 Seed: Four times 5 Seed: Two times 6 Seed: Two Times 7 Seed: One time 8 Seed: One time (congrats The Chosen Ones) Currently the 1, 2, 5, and 6 seeds are left, and you're complaining that the 6 seed is benefitting because they didn't get matched up against the 1 seed because the 2 seed submitted a list. |
|
