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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 15:23:59 GMT -5
Of course you're "confused" cuz you refuse to look at it objectively, and you're just naive enough to believe that there won't be anyone that will exploit that loophole to their advantage. 🤷 Trying to use Rocketmen as an "example" of it not working out is no example at all since he's usually always one of the first ones to throw people a bone whether it's to new members in giving them fighters or giving struggling teams a boost. So try again... I'm confused because you keep saying it's happening without giving any examples. How does it keep top teams on top? In the last several Grand Prix's (including Era 1) the seeds that won have been pretty spread out. GP 1:  Texas Rattlesnakes GP 25:  The Sandmen GP 24:  Sons of Anarchy GP 23: The Sandmen GP 22:  The Texas Rattlesnakes GP 21:  The Sandmen GP 20: The Rocketmen GP 19:  Camp Cannon GP 18: Camp Cannon GP 17: The Sandmen GP 16: Broad Street Bullies GP 15: The Sandmen GP 14: The Sandmen GP 13:  Broad Street Bullies GP 12: Camp Cannon GP 11:  Canadian Bulldozers GP 10: The Sandmen GP 9: Team 3lite 1 Seed: Three times 2 Seed: Two times 3 Seed: Three times 4 Seed: Four times 5 Seed: Two times 6 Seed: Two Times 7 Seed: One time 8 Seed: One time (congrats The Chosen Ones) Currently the 1, 2, 5, and 6 seeds are left, and you're complaining that the 6 seed is benefitting because they didn't get matched up against the 1 seed because the 2 seed submitted a list. What TF are even referencing Era 1 for anyways? 🤨 Era 1 was under the seeding system and worked just fine. 🤷There's no confusion there other than you trying to confuse the issue by referencing irrelevant points. I'm saying the potential for teams be able to cheat and take advantage of this system is there and should be taken away so that it's not possible. |
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 15:34:07 GMT -5
I'm confused because you keep saying it's happening without giving any examples. How does it keep top teams on top? In the last several Grand Prix's (including Era 1) the seeds that won have been pretty spread out. GP 1: Texas Rattlesnakes GP 25: The Sandmen GP 24: Sons of Anarchy GP 23: The Sandmen GP 22: The Texas Rattlesnakes GP 21: The Sandmen GP 20: The Rocketmen GP 19: Camp Cannon GP 18: Camp Cannon GP 17: The Sandmen GP 16: Broad Street Bullies GP 15: The Sandmen GP 14: The Sandmen GP 13: Broad Street Bullies GP 12: Camp Cannon GP 11: Canadian Bulldozers GP 10: The Sandmen GP 9: Team 3lite 1 Seed: Three times 2 Seed: Two times 3 Seed: Three times 4 Seed: Four times 5 Seed: Two times 6 Seed: Two Times 7 Seed: One time 8 Seed: One time (congrats The Chosen Ones) Currently the 1, 2, 5, and 6 seeds are left, and you're complaining that the 6 seed is benefitting because they didn't get matched up against the 1 seed because the 2 seed submitted a list. What TF are even referencing Era 1 for anyways? 🤨 Era 1 was under the seeding system and worked just fine. 🤷There's no confusion there other than you trying to confuse the issue by referencing irrelevant points. I'm saying the potential for teams be able to cheat and take advantage of this system is there and should be taken away so that it's not possible. Era 1 was under the seeding system until October 2018, and the list system was implemented, which was for the last four grand prixs. Since the list system, a two seed has won, a three seed, two four seeds, and if I win again this season, two six seeds. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 15:48:15 GMT -5
What TF are even referencing Era 1 for anyways? 🤨 Era 1 was under the seeding system and worked just fine. 🤷There's no confusion there other than you trying to confuse the issue by referencing irrelevant points. I'm saying the potential for teams be able to cheat and take advantage of this system is there and should be taken away so that it's not possible. Era 1 was under the seeding system until October 2018, and the list system was implemented, which was for the last four grand prixs. Since the list system, a two seed has won, a three seed, two four seeds, and if I win again this season, two six seeds. It was implemented after I left then 🤷 cuz there was nothing like that when I was around before; it was all based on seeding. I initially thought it was an interesting concept when it was first proposed, but now, in seeing it in application, and also noticing the potential for teams to actually cheat with it, it just isn't something that should be allowed. Period. And as I said, even with this tainted poll offering a third of option, instead just of one or other, and offering 2 ways for it to just stay as it is, and only one option for it to change, it just shows even further that this should be amended back to the seeding system, and if it does stay the same, I won't be participating in the GP anymore because the system is effectively a cheating mechanism that I want no part of and makes the GP a complete joke and a farce. If you like the cheating aspect that is possible, have at'er... I won't be apart of that. No way; no how. |
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 15:50:50 GMT -5
Era 1 was under the seeding system until October 2018, and the list system was implemented, which was for the last four grand prixs. Since the list system, a two seed has won, a three seed, two four seeds, and if I win again this season, two six seeds. It was implemented after I left then 🤷 cuz there was nothing like that when I was around before; it was all based on seeding. I initially thought it was an interesting concept when it was first proposed, but now, in seeing it in application, and also noticing the potential for teams to actually cheat with it, it just isn't something that should be allowed. Period. And as I said, even with this tainted poll offering a third of option, instead just of one or other, and offering 2 ways for it to just stay as it is, and only one option for it to change, it just shows even further that this should be amended back to the seeding system, and if it does stay the same, I won't be participating in the GP anymore because the system is effectively a cheating mechanism that I want no part of and makes the GP a complete joke and a farce. If you like the cheating aspect that is possible, have at'er... I won't be apart of that. No way; no how. I dont care one way or the other, there's just zero evidence to support that this somehow allows cheating. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 16:05:59 GMT -5
It was implemented after I left then 🤷 cuz there was nothing like that when I was around before; it was all based on seeding. I initially thought it was an interesting concept when it was first proposed, but now, in seeing it in application, and also noticing the potential for teams to actually cheat with it, it just isn't something that should be allowed. Period. And as I said, even with this tainted poll offering a third of option, instead just of one or other, and offering 2 ways for it to just stay as it is, and only one option for it to change, it just shows even further that this should be amended back to the seeding system, and if it does stay the same, I won't be participating in the GP anymore because the system is effectively a cheating mechanism that I want no part of and makes the GP a complete joke and a farce. If you like the cheating aspect that is possible, have at'er... I won't be apart of that. No way; no how. I dont care one way or the other, there's just zero evidence to support that this somehow allows cheating. Yeah... You don't care one way or another but you're sitting here arguing for it to stay the same. 🤦🙄😂😂 Being able to hand-pick your opponent in any round gives anyone the opportunity to cheat as a top 3-4 team, or any team, in and of itself, cuz they can just pick whomever they know they can beat without a problem. And whether it has happened or not, is irrelevant... Just the fact that anyone COULD do that at any time under this system should be enough for anyone with a brain in their head to realize that it probably isn't a good idea on the chance that it could be used that way. |
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 16:17:48 GMT -5
I dont care one way or the other, there's just zero evidence to support that this somehow allows cheating. Yeah... You don't care one way or another but you're sitting here arguing for it to stay the same. 🤦🙄😂😂 Being able to hand-pick your opponent in any round gives anyone the opportunity to cheat as a top 3-4 team, or any team, in and of itself, cuz they can just pick whomever they know they can beat without a problem. And whether it has happened or not, is irrelevant... Just the fact that anyone COULD do that at any time under this system should be enough for anyone with a brain in their head to realize that it probably isn't a good idea on the chance that it could be used that way. Everyone knows what they can do with picking the first round opponent, which is when everyone pretty much said it'd be fine. And I don't feel strongly, I'm just playing Devil's advocate because you're calling it cheating, but not really making much sense. There's definitely better stylistic matches to be made strategy wise, but even if I could have picked who I wanted to face in Round 1, no opponent is a for sure victory. Which is another reason I typically don't send in a preference list. Doesn't matter to me who I have to beat up. But I respect other teams right to want to strategize. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 16:21:22 GMT -5
Yeah... You don't care one way or another but you're sitting here arguing for it to stay the same. 🤦🙄😂😂 Being able to hand-pick your opponent in any round gives anyone the opportunity to cheat as a top 3-4 team, or any team, in and of itself, cuz they can just pick whomever they know they can beat without a problem. And whether it has happened or not, is irrelevant... Just the fact that anyone COULD do that at any time under this system should be enough for anyone with a brain in their head to realize that it probably isn't a good idea on the chance that it could be used that way. Everyone knows what they can do with picking the first round opponent, which is when everyone pretty much said it'd be fine. And I don't feel strongly, I'm just playing Devil's advocate because you're calling it cheating, but not really making much sense. There's definitely better stylistic matches to be made strategy wise, but even if I could have picked who I wanted to face in Round 1, no opponent is a for sure victory. Which is another reason I typically don't send in a preference list. Doesn't matter to me who I have to beat up. But I respect other teams right to want to strategize. That's not strategizing, that's cheating... That's exactly what I'm talking about. |
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 9, 2022 16:45:36 GMT -5
Everyone knows what they can do with picking the first round opponent, which is when everyone pretty much said it'd be fine. And I don't feel strongly, I'm just playing Devil's advocate because you're calling it cheating, but not really making much sense. There's definitely better stylistic matches to be made strategy wise, but even if I could have picked who I wanted to face in Round 1, no opponent is a for sure victory. Which is another reason I typically don't send in a preference list. Doesn't matter to me who I have to beat up. But I respect other teams right to want to strategize. That's not strategizing, that's cheating... That's exactly what I'm talking about. How is it cheating if teams all have the same opportunity. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 16:54:42 GMT -5
That's not strategizing, that's cheating... That's exactly what I'm talking about. How is it cheating if teams all have the same opportunity. It's not an opportunity, especially if it goes down the order in terms of "priority" and only the top 3-4 teams that send in a "priority list" get this alleged "opportunity". It's just a potential opportunity to cheat. It's has nothing to do with strategy or opportunity. |
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Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 9, 2022 17:10:28 GMT -5
I vote that we cancel the GP and give me the title.
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Mar 9, 2022 17:53:14 GMT -5
I'm saying the potential for teams be able to cheat Just so everyone fully understands, can you explain how it's cheating but not strategy? I'm not sure we're clear on that part specifically. Like, in the NHL, the home team gets last-change, and can make match-ups accordingly. That's not cheating. And even then, teams here don't get to see the FIGHTERS they would be facing, since GP fighter lists are still private until fights are announced. So I'm just looking for a bit of clarification on the cheating part specifically. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 18:24:12 GMT -5
I'm saying the potential for teams be able to cheat Just so everyone fully understands, can you explain how it's cheating but not strategy? I'm not sure we're clear on that part specifically. Like, in the NHL, the home team gets last-change, and can make match-ups accordingly. That's not cheating. And even then, teams here don't get to see the FIGHTERS they would be facing, since GP fighter lists are still private until fights are announced. So I'm just looking for a bit of clarification on the cheating part specifically. You know... For another one, like Snakes, that claims "not to care either way", and would also rather have it the way I'm suggesting it, you sure have a lot to say about it. I've been explaining it two fucking days here, and I know you're not stupid, so the only other explanation for this shit is that you're "refusing" to understand what I'm saying and getting me to explain again for the umpteenth time... Especially after we had, what I thought, was a constructive conversation last night, is cuz you're just fucking with me, again... So, if that's the case... Fuck you! ...Again! 🙄🖕😜 That being said though, this isn't the NHL, NBA, or anything else you've been trying to compare it to. You're trying to compare apples & oranges here. Anyone that has any semblance of knowledge of this program knows what teams/fighters they tend to have the number of, which ones they don't, and can exploit that. It's not the same as the "last shift in hockey" because there is more randomness to hockey than there is here. You can generally tell who's going to win any given fight more than 50% of the time, and you can see that simply looking at our predictor scores. 🤷 It's extremely rare that anyone gets less than 10 correct predictions on any given card that has 14-15 fights, let alone 5 or less. So, how exactly is that strategy? |
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Mar 9, 2022 19:36:05 GMT -5
It's extremely rare that anyone gets less than 10 correct predictions on any given card that has 14-15 fights, let alone 5 or less. So, how exactly is that strategy? Because it's not a certainty, and it requires thinking and calculation, not unlawful manipulation of anything. With things like upgrades, or flash KOs, or wrestlers not landing takedowns, or guys choking on the big stage, we see this all the time. If you are following the fights on an event-by-event basis, you see most of the odds in our fights are very close. And no GP has ever been certain in our 25+ GP events. So the idea that choosing your opponents for 1 round cheats the whole thing still doesn't make sense. Strategy is probability. Cheating is doing something against the rules to give you an unfair advantage. Since this is within the rules, we'll assume your issue is the "unfair advantage" part, but when I ask for an explanation, I am wondering for who? We have never seen this unfair advantage. If anything, the seed system gives lower-ranked teams an unfair advantage, since they fight top teams more likely to have champions who are unable to participate. Forgetting the fact that your team is a lower-ranked team for a moment and maybe explain why a lower ranked team DESERVES the advantage over a higher-ranked team that worked all season to build a better team? Because while I have continually said I understand what you are saying about an "unfair advantage" (though our entire 4 years of history with this choose your opponent system disagree with you), no one understands your "cheating" argument, since by definition, cheating means against the rules. And lastly I guess I am still confused about why you are saying this when you don't even have access to who has submitted opponent lists to begin with. The system has not been manipulated in the way you seem to think it can or will be manipulated, and anyone who has tried has not had the success you seem to think they will certainly have. So I'm just trying to make sense of it all. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 9, 2022 19:39:17 GMT -5
It's extremely rare that anyone gets less than 10 correct predictions on any given card that has 14-15 fights, let alone 5 or less. So, how exactly is that strategy? Because it's not a certainty, and it requires thinking and calculation, not unlawful manipulation of anything. With things like upgrades, or flash KOs, or wrestlers not landing takedowns, or guys choking on the big stage, we see this all the time. If you are following the fights on an event-by-event basis, you see most of the odds in our fights are very close. And no GP has ever been certain in our 25+ GP events. So the idea that choosing your opponents for 1 round cheats the whole thing still doesn't make sense. Strategy is probability. Cheating is doing something against the rules to give you an unfair advantage. Since this is within the rules, we'll assume your issue is the "unfair advantage" part, but when I ask for an explanation, I am wondering for who? We have never seen this unfair advantage. If anything, the seed system gives lower-ranked teams an unfair advantage, since they fight top teams more likely to have champions who are unable to participate. Forgetting the fact that your team is a lower-ranked team for a moment and maybe explain why a lower ranked team DESERVES the advantage over a higher-ranked team that worked all season to build a better team? Because while I have continually said I understand what you are saying about an "unfair advantage" (though our entire 4 years of history with this choose your opponent system disagree with you), no one understands your "cheating" argument, since by definition, cheating means against the rules. And lastly I guess I am still confused about why you are saying this when you don't even have access to who has submitted opponent lists to begin with. And yet you completely disregard what I said prior to my question. The answer is there. You're confusing yourself by over complicating it. It stops being strategy and becomes cheating when you know you have someone's number and pick a team you know for a fact you can get 3+ wins against what they have in their arsenal, it doesn't matter if you know who they're putting in or not. If we were getting under 10 correct predictions from everyone consistently on every single card in the predictor, you'd have an argument for it being strategy... But when you already pretty much know beforehand that you can beat at least 3 of a team's 5 in a weight class, regardless of who it is, and hand-pick that team to be your opponent, that IS an unfair advantage, and, effectively, cheating. |
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Mar 9, 2022 21:59:27 GMT -5
And yet you completely disregard what I said prior to my question. The answer is there. You're confusing yourself by over complicating it. It stops being strategy and becomes cheating when you know you have someone's number and pick a team you know for a fact you can get 3+ wins against what they have in their arsenal, it doesn't matter if you know who they're putting in or not. If we were getting under 10 correct predictions from everyone consistently on every single card in the predictor, you'd have an argument for it being strategy... But when you already pretty much know beforehand that you can beat at least 3 of a team's 5 in a weight class, regardless of who it is, and hand-pick that team to be your opponent, that IS an unfair advantage, and, effectively, cheating. You are talking about hypotheticals, not reality. What GP team would you argue "know for a fact" they can get 3+ wins over their opponent? |
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