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Post by Phoenix FC on Sept 12, 2022 10:37:06 GMT -5
What advantages exactly though? I wasn't even a GP eligible team, and was stripped of basically 8 points (6 carry over; 2 from the draft), all because whomever was updating the points thread didn't do it right. 🤷 That's not my fault, nor should it be my problem, or anyone else's for that matter. So you think you shouldn't be charged for points you spent? If you, Justin, and/or Mike made the error(s), and didn't update the thread properly, then no, we shouldn't be charged, or penalized, for any overage points we spent cuz we're trusting you that when you post "UPDATED" that's it's actually is updated accurately. Mistakes happen, but it's not our fault that we overspent when the all we see is what is there and the thread says "UPDATED". 🤷 |
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Sept 12, 2022 10:39:15 GMT -5
So you think you shouldn't be charged for points you spent? If you, Justin, and/or Mike made the error(s), and didn't update the thread properly, then no, we shouldn't be charged, or penalized, for any overage points we spent cuz we're trusting you that when you post "UPDATED" that's it's actually is updated accurately. Mistakes happen, but it's not our fault that we overspent when the all we see is what is there and the thread says "UPDATED". 🤷 I'm just gonna come out and say that I agree with you. I don't think teams should have to pay a debt, but I do think reparations are needed. Unless The Sandman has a good reason, I don't see why Outback's solution couldn't work. |
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Post by Outback Cyclone on Sept 12, 2022 10:40:41 GMT -5
2) Give everyone in the league a lump sum of extra points to zero out the debt the over-spenders. This option was too flawed for 2 major reasons. First, it meant teams that were overclocked were able to have an unfair advantage with no effect or trade-off. This felt unfair to the other teams. Second, it meant several of our more inactive teams would suddenly be given a lump sum of 10-20 points. This felt as though it would give them a random and sudden unfair advantage to open the season. But it's already unfair. This isn't an "oh my gosh some teams have a ton of points now" - that's slowly happened. It doesn't matter if it's a trickle or a flood - people have gained points they shouldn't have had at it's quite honestly cost people wins. There's no perfect solution to this - but taking points away over time isn't going to have much of an effect for a LONG time. I don't feel it's unfair to not "punish" teams - not getting a large lump sum others would is already punishment enough. It'll even out the league starting for this season and we can move forward. I'm active and probably didn't overspend much - yet I've still lost fights I shouldn't have. I think the compensation points is the best choice - and if inactive teams have more points oh well, they already have a ton they could use. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Sept 12, 2022 10:42:58 GMT -5
The point is that no one should owe anything at all since it wasn't our error, and has been made clear that it wasn't our fault. Yet, the 'Grand Pubah' feels that the best way to handle this is to penalize the teams when it was his own staff that screwed it up. We shouldn't be penalized at all for that. The thing is even if no points are removed we still lost fights to fighters who shouldn't be as good as they are. Like my Grand Prix loss - did I lose to fighters that shouldn't have been as good as they are? Should Tuivasa be ranked higher but lost to a fighter that's been upgraded more than allowed? I'm all for live and let live but this just doesn't sit right with me - I'm not saying invalidate all the fights associated but give us the points now that're the difference between them and let us even up immediately. With removed points it's gonna take months if not a year plus for things to even out - I think it should be an immediate course correction. We have fighter caps, so it doesn't really matter how slow, or how quickly, guys/gals get upgraded cuz there is a ceiling. There's still no justification for penalizing the teams when it was a staff error. |
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Post by Outback Cyclone on Sept 12, 2022 10:46:30 GMT -5
The thing is even if no points are removed we still lost fights to fighters who shouldn't be as good as they are. Like my Grand Prix loss - did I lose to fighters that shouldn't have been as good as they are? Should Tuivasa be ranked higher but lost to a fighter that's been upgraded more than allowed? I'm all for live and let live but this just doesn't sit right with me - I'm not saying invalidate all the fights associated but give us the points now that're the difference between them and let us even up immediately. With removed points it's gonna take months if not a year plus for things to even out - I think it should be an immediate course correction. We have fighter caps, so it doesn't really matter how slow, or how quickly, guys/gals get upgraded cuz there is a ceiling. There's still no justification for penalizing the teams when it was a staff error. Which means there's fighters at the ceiling that shouldn't be. Which means they're better than they should've been. I'm saying instead of punishing the teams for the error, let's compensate the teams that were screwed into losing fights they shouldn't have. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Sept 12, 2022 10:56:59 GMT -5
If you, Justin, and/or Mike made the error(s), and didn't update the thread properly, then no, we shouldn't be charged, or penalized, for any overage points we spent cuz we're trusting you that when you post "UPDATED" that's it's actually is updated accurately. Mistakes happen, but it's not our fault that we overspent when the all we see is what is there and the thread says "UPDATED". 🤷 I'm just gonna come out and say that I agree with you. I don't think teams should have to pay a debt, but I do think reparations are needed. Unless The Sandman has a good reason, I don't see why Outback's solution couldn't work. Well, with his 99% vague explanation of anything that actually happened, I don't buy any of this crap for one second. 🤷 It just sounds like more Justin bullshit, and he's making the members pay for what amounts to his own staff making an error. |
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Post by The Rocketmen on Sept 12, 2022 11:52:38 GMT -5
I'm just here to say that it was me. I fucked it up.
Teams that I fucked it up on got massive benefits for my fuck up, and there's a balancing being done because the teams that got to spend points they didn't have got better than other people.
You're completely allowed to be upset and think I'm an asshole for fucking up the points transactions thread. (Believe it or not, I, too, am upset that I fucked it up, no kidding!)
But if you think not finding a way to set it right and balance it for the teams who didn't get those extra points, then you just like cheating.
Is it annoying? Yep. Do you probably hate me? Sure, and that's fine. Does it need to be resolved? Absofuckinglutely.
BUT Cheer up everyone! Luckily for all of you, this is a video game and we all do this to entertain you for free.
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Post by Phoenix FC on Sept 12, 2022 12:02:30 GMT -5
I hadn't planned on using salary (except in the cases of staff members, because I like punishing our staff for all the amazing hard work they do). I figured putting up the minus-numbers would be more confusing, since I was trying to clean up the mess as unobtrusively as possible as basically a behind-the-scenes debt paid off by extra bonuses and the like (for belts, points earned from posting on predictions, perhaps prediction wins, game wins, etc). But if people would prefer a clearer, but more obtrusive "-9" points that includes auto-deducting all points earned until debts are clear, that's also fine. Honestly, we are at a point where it's pretty close to hitting that 5 point threshold, so it won't be that much of a thing. Further, if for some reason people want details on what their point-debt was and wants a breakdown of what I have been using to pay it off, PM me. (Note, this will not be a PM to argue about this - the numbers have been triple checked and are accurate - it will be a PM telling you what your point-debt was, what it is, and how we got there). I'll try to get that posted/updated later today. Especially if some kind staffer ( The Texas Rattlesnakes or The Rocketmen) gets a chance to update the points thread before this afternoon. I don't care if they've been checked 100 times dude. The members shouldn't be paying for an error by your staff, and, effectively, you, since you're the supervisor. 🤷 I'm sure we don't say it enough that we do appreciate the work you guys do, and goes by the wayside in our little fighter rivalries and such, but passing the buck again like this, and penalizing teams, for your own mistake, shouldn't have even been an option. Yes, your staff puts in the work, which is wonderful, but, at the end of the day, they fucked up, not us as members, so we shouldn't have to pay for their mistake either. Own your own mistake, rectify what actually caused the problem so it doesn't happen again, and move forward. It's not like points are at premium here either, nor is there a threshold or limit for them, with the points games, end of the year awards points, prediction points & the times you say: "everyone who predicted gets a point" or "post in this thread to get a point" or whatever. Yet, by stripping teams of their points, you're basically placing the blame on them, and not where it should be; on yourself & your staff. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Sept 12, 2022 12:07:43 GMT -5
I'm just here to say that it was me. I fucked it up. Teams that I fucked it up on got massive benefits for my fuck up, and there's a balancing being done because the teams that got to spend points they didn't have got better than other people. You're completely allowed to be upset and think I'm an asshole for fucking up the points transactions thread. (Believe it or not, I, too, am upset that I fucked it up, no kidding!) But if you think not finding a way to set it right and balance it for the teams who didn't get those extra points, then you just like cheating. Is it annoying? Yep. Do you probably hate me? Sure, and that's fine. Does it need to be resolved? Absofuckinglutely. BUT Cheer up everyone! Luckily for all of you, this is a video game and we all do this to entertain you for free. I can appreciate that Mike, but that's not the point. Nor is there anyone saying to not find a way to set it right, but stripping teams of points already acquired, due to the error or not, is just wrong, when it wasn't any of our faults the error occurred. That's not fair to anyone either. |
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Post by The Rocketmen on Sept 12, 2022 12:10:57 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, but I don't see it as stripping points, I see it as "you overdrew your balance on your bank account, and the next cheque that gets deposited will set it back to zero, but don't worry, there's no overdraft penalty."
If you can live with that, it resolves it, and in a month, all of this will be a distant past and all that we remember was "remember that time Mike was a fucking idiot?" and we all nod lol
I think this is VERY fair to everyone. No one is penalized for their overdrawn account, and thus are not penalized for getting to buy stuff with their nonexistent money with zero interest. And everyone that had 0 dollars in their account and DIDN'T overdraw see no positive or negative aspect, aside from not also benefiting from the no-harm-no-foul re-balancing of the accounts.
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Post by Outback Cyclone on Sept 12, 2022 12:12:57 GMT -5
I'm just here to say that it was me. I fucked it up. Teams that I fucked it up on got massive benefits for my fuck up, and there's a balancing being done because the teams that got to spend points they didn't have got better than other people. You're completely allowed to be upset and think I'm an asshole for fucking up the points transactions thread. (Believe it or not, I, too, am upset that I fucked it up, no kidding!) But if you think not finding a way to set it right and balance it for the teams who didn't get those extra points, then you just like cheating. Is it annoying? Yep. Do you probably hate me? Sure, and that's fine. Does it need to be resolved? Absofuckinglutely. BUT Cheer up everyone! Luckily for all of you, this is a video game and we all do this to entertain you for free. Dude, I get it. People make mistakes - and honestly the consequences of this doesn't really exist. My thing - and hence my suggestion - is because of this: if we take points away slowly to fix it, those who got the extra points will continue to benefit from it for months from now. If we give everyone points as needed to make everything even, we're all on the same playing field. Sure, some teams will jump up in talent, but that makes it fair - and honestly more fun - than taking points away from people who honestly didn't do anything to cheat. Lets even this out, put everyone on the same level, and put this behind us and move forward instead of dragging this out with slowly taking points away and waiting for months for this to be even. |
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Post by Outback Cyclone on Sept 12, 2022 12:19:22 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, but I don't see it as stripping points, I see it as "you overdrew your balance on your bank account, and the next cheque that gets deposited will set it back to zero, but don't worry, there's no overdraft penalty." If you can live with that, it resolves it, and in a month, all of this will be a distant past and all that we remember was "remember that time Mike was a fucking idiot?" and we all nod lol I think this is VERY fair to everyone. No one is penalized for their overdrawn account, and thus are not penalized for getting to buy stuff with their nonexistent money with zero interest. And everyone that had 0 dollars in their account and DIDN'T overdraw see no positive or negative aspect, aside from not also benefiting from the no-harm-no-foul re-balancing of the accounts. The problem is it's still not fair - those who "overdrew" are still going to have an unfair advantage until we even out. It's going to be unfair for months until things even out. We're still going to be dealing with this in 2023 at this rate. It's sadly not a no-harm-no-foul rebalancing - those teams get to benefit from their overdraft for a long time yet while those who didn't still have to fight those who're upgraded past where they should be. |
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Post by Phoenix FC on Sept 12, 2022 12:29:26 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from, but I don't see it as stripping points, I see it as "you overdrew your balance on your bank account, and the next cheque that gets deposited will set it back to zero, but don't worry, there's no overdraft penalty." If you can live with that, it resolves it, and in a month, all of this will be a distant past and all that we remember was "remember that time Mike was a fucking idiot?" and we all nod lol I think this is VERY fair to everyone. No one is penalized for their overdrawn account, and thus are not penalized for getting to buy stuff with their nonexistent money with zero interest. And everyone that had 0 dollars in their account and DIDN'T overdraw see no positive or negative aspect, aside from not also benefiting from the no-harm-no-foul re-balancing of the accounts. This isn't a bank though, nor is there any limit on how many points can there be circulating out there at any given time with how arbitrarily points are given out either. 🤷 And even if it was, it was the bank's error, not the account holder's error cuz our balance read to be one thing, but you're trying to place the onus back on us, when it was your system that caused us to be "overdrawn". The onus is on "the bank" to pick up the shortfall at that point because it was their own error that said you had a balance when you didn't. That's not the account holder's fault, or responsibility, at that point. Especially without any warning, or discussion, about it either... Nope. We're just taking away your points that we think you owe us cuz we screwed up. Sorry... 🙄 Well, no thanks... That's not a solution, that's penalization of the victim. |
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Post by The Rocketmen on Sept 12, 2022 12:41:11 GMT -5
However this whole thing gets resolved, I do apologize to those who's enjoyment of the site was negatively affected by my error. Hope this is a page we can turn and continue to have fun on here together. Sorry guys. I can assure you it was not done intentionally, but the whole thing is shitty no matter how it's spun, and it's completely and entirely my fault.
Don't let your frustrations on how Justin and/or Austin have tried to resolve it take away from your enjoyment of the site. They are both trying to implement the best "shitty road forward" that I unintentionally paved for them. They shouldn't be taking heat for trying to fix what I broke, and they didn't need to have a cloud of mystery around who did it.
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Post by Team GAP on Sept 12, 2022 12:51:09 GMT -5
My 2 cents.
I understand and ageee with phx's thought... "if its not our fault why are we paying for it." But... if you benefited from the mistake then you need to give back in order to balance everything back. I don't think this was done correctly. I think it could have been done a bit better by being transparent about it.
Say.. oh man we screwed up. We will need to correct things by adding a minus point debt to each person to correct the issue. Im ok with that because your being straight forward. But the way it was done was not straight forward.
"A lannister pays his debts"
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