The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
|
Post by The Sandman on Mar 17, 2022 23:31:12 GMT -5
I'm leaning towards getting rid of the "win a tournament and get a title shot" system for this season, and seeing how things go if we mix it up and give a wider range of deserving fighters title shots. I think I would still have #1 Contender fights in almost all cases. But maybe not, if someone was on a major win streak coming out of a GP or something like that. I'm a little unenthused by seeing the same people in the same tournaments over and over again, and this might open up some doors to new, interesting matchups, perhaps?
Thoughts? Objections?
|
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 18, 2022 6:28:40 GMT -5
Like it
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 22, 2022 11:17:01 GMT -5
My feeling on it is: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 🤷
The tournament system is a clear & clean way to determine our #1 contenders without any thoughts of bias, and really shouldn't be touched. Sure, new matchups are interesting & fun, but that's what the undercard is for IMO.
Just leaving it open, somewhat willy-nilly, and just giving the to shot whomever YOU want as the #1 contender, and not necessarily who SHOULD be #1 contender, basically just opens the door, and a can of worms, to thoughts of card manipulation, and you (the simmer) being able to hand-pick who you want to be champions or should be contending for a title, which isn't right for you, as the simmer, to be able to do because you're supposed to be non-partisan, and was a big reason it was agreed upon that you wouldn't have a team so that you could be non-partisan.
I honestly think that this suggestion of you wanting to do away with the tournaments just takes that non-partisanship out of play and, also, just like the GP thing with the seeding, makes the fighter rankings absolutely useless too.
What's the point of being a ranked fighter if you're not going to get a chance in a tournament, or even a shot at the title, all cuz the simmer wants to see a certain fight vs the champ, over another fighter, instead of giving the proper people the shot that they deserve, or have earned through the tournament?
|
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 22, 2022 11:53:51 GMT -5
makes the fighter rankings absolutely useless too. What's the point of being a ranked fighter if you're not going to get a chance in a tournament, or even a shot at the title, all cuz the simmer wants to see a certain fight vs the champ, over another fighter, instead of giving the proper people the shot that they deserve, or have earned through the tournament? Actually, I'd argue the rankings would be utilized even more with this method. Champ can work to cleanout the division, and work his way down the rankings, otherwise it's the same six people in tournaments over and over again with the same four winners. I do however agree that the current method isn't broken. The Sandman, can you give us an example of how you would choose the matchups for clarity? It would make fighters trying to go up in rank more valuable, and it would open the door to fighters trash talking and calling out fighters who are ranked higher than them. Which they can do right now, but the rankings don't really make that much of a difference right now. In my opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 22, 2022 12:35:23 GMT -5
Actually, I'd argue the rankings would be utilized even more with this method. Champ can work to cleanout the division, and work his way down the rankings, otherwise it's the same six people in tournaments over and over again with the same four winners. I disagree... It's not always exactly the same fighters, and the thing is, if folks want their fighters to be in there, you need to upgrade. Simple as that. We have some teams that are just sitting there collecting points, and not really doing anything at all. I do however agree that the current method isn't broken. The Sandman, can you give us an example of how you would choose the matchups for clarity? You answered your own question... It's not broken, so there's no suggestion required. Even in his initial post, it's "I'M a little unenthused...". It's only to do with Sandman, and has nothing to do with the league as a whole, or with the system being broken or unfair. It would make fighters trying to go up in rank more valuable, and it would open the door to fighters trash talking and calling out fighters who are ranked higher than them. Which they can do right now, but the rankings don't really make that much of a difference right now. In my opinion. How does it make going up in rank more valuable when the simmer could literally just be able choose whomever he wants to fight the champion, regardless of ranking? It also doesn't open the door any wider for trash talking, or calling out another fighter than it already is, cuz you can already do that, if you choose to. You can challenge a higher ranked fighter, and, if your fighter wins, then the fighters swap ranks. That's the system of how the rankings work here, which I agree isn't great either, but that's how it's done, nor is that list upgraded frequently enough for it to have mean a whole helluva lot; much like the complete team list not being updated since November of last year. 🤷 Especially when we just completed the season, acquired a new expansion, and had the draft, which a majority of folks just took points for instead of trading, cuz there's no updated list of what teams have, even though it's allegedly on "the schedule" to be updated every week, if/when needed, but it's never even looked at. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 22, 2022 12:45:08 GMT -5
Actually, I'd argue the rankings would be utilized even more with this method. Champ can work to cleanout the division, and work his way down the rankings, otherwise it's the same six people in tournaments over and over again with the same four winners. I disagree... It's not always exactly the same fighters, and the thing is, if folks want their fighters to be in there, you need to upgrade. Simple as that. We have some teams that are just sitting there collecting points, and not really doing anything at all. I do however agree that the current method isn't broken. The Sandman, can you give us an example of how you would choose the matchups for clarity? You answered your own question... It's not broken, so there's no suggestion required. Even in his initial post, it's "I'M a little unenthused...". It's only to do with Sandman, and has nothing to do with the league as a whole, or with the system being broken or unfair. It would make fighters trying to go up in rank more valuable, and it would open the door to fighters trash talking and calling out fighters who are ranked higher than them. Which they can do right now, but the rankings don't really make that much of a difference right now. In my opinion. How does it make going up in rank more valuable when the simmer could literally just be able choose whomever he wants to fight the champion, regardless of ranking? It also doesn't open the door any wider for trash talking, or calling out another fighter than it already is, cuz you can already do that, if you choose to. You can challenge a higher ranked fighter, and, if your fighter wins, then the fighters swap ranks. That's the system of how the rankings work here, which I agree isn't great either, but that's how it's done, nor is that list upgraded frequently enough for it to have mean a whole helluva lot; much like the complete team list not being updated since November of last year. 🤷 Especially when we just completed the season, acquired a new expansion, and had the draft, which a majority of folks just took points for instead of trading, cuz there's no updated list of what teams have, even though it's allegedly on "the schedule" to be updated every week, if/when needed, but it's never even looked at. Shows how much you pay attention. The Rankings page is updated after every event. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 22, 2022 12:45:32 GMT -5
I have more to say, but busy atm. Will be back later lmao, had to get that out there though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 22, 2022 13:12:28 GMT -5
I have more to say, but busy atm. Will be back later lmao, had to get that out there though. Good for you... 🤷 lol I really don't have much more to say other than what I have already. Him wanting to take out the tournaments cuz he's "unenthused" isn't valid reasoning to change a system that's both fair for everyone, and is working just fine the way it is; it never has been, as much as he'll argue to the contrary. Then trying to make it sound universally appealing by claiming "this might open up some doors to new, interesting matchups", when really that just means "new, interesting matchups" for him, not really anyone else, and just gives him carte blanche to set up title fights that he personally wants to see, or to give a fighter HE wants to have a title shot over someone that he doesn't... Which, again, is NOT non-partisan. |
|
|
|
Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 22, 2022 14:56:43 GMT -5
Nothing is even changing dude, he makes the tournament fights the same way he would the current fights.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 22, 2022 16:52:51 GMT -5
I vote that we name ME gatekeeper, and every time there is a title shot, they must first beat my fighter, kidnap my dog, then not return my dog, and then send me monthly updates on how my dog is doing in her new home.
|
|
The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
|
Post by The Sandman on Mar 22, 2022 18:23:03 GMT -5
Phoenix FC, We would actually see rankings mean much more than they do now. That was actually part of the reason I was leaning towards going this way for a bit. We are seeing a lot of 9th ranked fighters getting title shots (because of how the tournament schedule works), and 3rd or 4th ranked people missing out on tournaments because they lose to the top 2-3 ranked fighters (that cannot stylistically beat the champ, but can stylistically beat everyone below them). So what I am seeing now is guys ranked about 4th will go into a tournament with a 2 fight win streak, lose to the 2nd ranked guy, then the 2nd ranked guy will lose his title shot for the 3rd time. This would allow Champs to fight higher-ranked guys more consistently, while all other fights would have a lot more meaning now as well. Now, it feels like only tournament fights matter, and because of pacing and things, I often have to use people in tournaments I rather wouldn't (like high ranked guys on losing streaks, or lower-ranked guys on winning streaks). Basically the idea here would be the 2 fight win streak from a 4th ranked fighter would be enough. I certainly wouldn't just be handing title shots to whoever I wanted, and for full transparency, I'll say now, the methodology would be "Highest ranked fighter on a win streak who hasn't had a title shot the longest" I don't foresee anyone with just 1 win getting a title shot unless they were ranked 1 or 2 and hadn't had a title shot in like, 2 seasons and had substantial upgrades type thing. But it's not like an unranked guy with 2 straight wins would be fighting for the belt. Or a guy coming off 3 straight losses would get a title shot - this isn't the UFC.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 22, 2022 18:41:51 GMT -5
Again The Sandman, I'm standing by my statement. If it ain't broke; don't fix it. 🤷 |
|
The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
|
Post by The Sandman on Mar 22, 2022 18:47:39 GMT -5
I do however agree that the current method isn't broken. The Sandman, can you give us an example of how you would choose the matchups for clarity? I would keep our schedule of title fights, so all titles are still defended on the events in our schedule. So planning for those 3-4 events in advance, I would either have a guy who clearly is ready for a title shot (right now, coming out of the GP, for example, Andrei Arlovski had a strong showing, is on a 3 fight win streak, and is ranked #3. It feels redundant to now make him win a tournament on top of those accomplishments to earn a title shot). So let's pretend I'm booking ManMMA 42 right now (I have my document open right now and am typing my thought process for this live as I go through this journey without planning or forethought, just pure card-making brain. If it turns into a boring/unhelpful dead-end, I apologize - but it should give you a crystal clear insight into this whole process). So ManMMA 42. This is the event where I have my #1 contender fights for ManMMA 46, so I look at that. I need a HW title fight and a BW title fight for 46. HW #1 contender Arlovski meets all the criteria, so that's an easy call there. So BW. Right now, Megan Anderson is ranked #1, and has a 2 fight win streak. A very valid option. But she was just champ, so I will see if there is someone JUST AS deserving (anyone less deserving, I will put her against Megan at 41 in a #1 contender spot so they both have to earn their title shot). Zingano and Baszler are the only other BWs with 2 fight win streaks, so no now we are looking at a stretch for #1 Contender fight. So now I am looking at whether any top 3 fighters are coming off of a win, especially one over Anderson. Ronda Rousey, ranked 12, is the highest ranked fighter coming off of a win. So I check fight history to see when/if Anderson and Rousey last fought. Off-hand, this fight feels interesting for me, as a #1 contender fight. Checking fight history.... Rousey has never fought Anderson, so I would probably #1 contender Rousey vs. Anderson. My only reservation is Rousey lost to Nunes (the champ), very recently, in Nunes' title-run tournament. But I don't think that would stop me, so yeah. Rousey vs. Anderson for BW #1 Contender. ------------------- That was fun. Let's do one more. Next event. I am booking ManMMA 43. I need #1 Contender fights for MW and FW (for ManMMA 47). Excluding fighters who already won #1 contender tournaments, only #11 Honchak and #2 Schevchenko have 3 fight win streaks. 3 feels like enough to warrant a title shot, but I'll see if these 2 fought each other. If they haven't, I'll have them fight each other here at ManMMA 43 in #1 contender bout. ...and they have never fought. So bang - #1 Contender fight between 2 highest ranked win-streak fighters. Now I am second-guessing that gimme-fight, so I am scanning to see if anyone ranked 1-10 has any win streak at all to make a better matchup than a 2 vs. 11 fight. ...Only #3 Weili Zhang is coming off of a win, and she just lost to Shevchenko 2 fights ago, so no need to rematch that yet. So Honchack vs. Schevchenko #1 contender it is. Now onto MW. #5 Machida and #10 Belfort have 3 fight win streaks. Have they fought each other before/recently? (fight history document) They have never fought, so probably do that fight. Scanning to see if any fighters ranked 1-9 have win streaks just to confirm that Machida-belfort is my #1 contender fight. #2 Robert Whittaker has a 1 fight streak. That doesn't feel like a lot, but I'll see who he has fought lately. He just fought for a title at 40, so he is out. So now I finalize Machida-Belfort #1 contender bout. --------------- That's the process, fully and completely, done in real time  Edit: I never finished my document-open process with Arlovski, so were I to do this for real, he would have got the research the other 3 fights did. I started this example by saying it was an example, then doing it for real and never went back to really do Arlovski. |
|
The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
|
Post by The Sandman on Mar 22, 2022 18:54:44 GMT -5
Again The Sandman, I'm standing by my statement. If it ain't broke; don't fix it. 🤷 The issue is that it is starting to look a little broken right now, though, with only the same few fighters getting the upgrades. And it was a broken record loop we had on Era one for long stretches too. |
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 22, 2022 18:58:56 GMT -5
Still prefer the tournaments... That way everyone can see the fighters who are up for it and it's a process, not just handed out.
There's nothing stopping any ranked fighters from challenging the champion anyways, so you're really not fixing any sort of problem here cuz there isn't one.
|
|
