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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 22, 2022 19:08:56 GMT -5
Again The Sandman, I'm standing by my statement. If it ain't broke; don't fix it. 🤷 The issue is that it is starting to look a little broken right now, though, with only the same few fighters getting the upgrades. And it was a broken record loop we had on Era one for long stretches too. 🤔 Or you're just missing having more control over things too, and it's only "broken" cuz it's not how you personally think it should be done, even though these tournament were your idea in the first place; and likely your best one.
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Mar 22, 2022 22:45:21 GMT -5
The issue is that it is starting to look a little broken right now, though, with only the same few fighters getting the upgrades. And it was a broken record loop we had on Era one for long stretches too. 🤔 Or you're just missing having more control over things too, and it's only "broken" cuz it's not how you personally think it should be done, even though these tournament were your idea in the first place; and likely your best one. We've done it how I personally think it should be done since day 1 of ManMMA. The tournaments were how I personally thought it should be done. Our current builds are exposing the flaws in that system. But if you are saying you don't see the problems, I'm doing a great job of hiding the flaws with my booking, so I will take that as a big compliment for sure. Because they are definitely there, whether anyone other than the guy booking sees them or not.
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Post by Lord Byron's Conquistadors on Mar 23, 2022 1:06:14 GMT -5
doesnt hurt to try it for a season and we can see how we feel about it start of next season or even half way at the surivovr series or whatever. i dont see it breaking the whole site in that short time and if it works how bookerman says it does it actually sounds like it makes even more sense to me as long as guys with 5 fight losing streaks arent talking themselves into title shots. what i mean is i dont want all the title shots to go to guys like covington irl who just talk until they get a title shot. i think thats fun but here i think it would just be too much in favor of guys like phx since hes good at the press conference thing so hed just get all the title shots. and hurt guys like me and gap who are more quiet. we still want ranked people up there. so as long as they are top ranked and not as phx said just whoever booker feels just had a good ufc fight or some shit then im in to give it a go. because i hear you having leslie smith fight for title at zenith was kinda anticlimax if im being honest.
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 23, 2022 13:03:50 GMT -5
🤔 Or you're just missing having more control over things too, and it's only "broken" cuz it's not how you personally think it should be done, even though these tournament were your idea in the first place; and likely your best one. We've done it how I personally think it should be done since day 1 of ManMMA. The tournaments were how I personally thought it should be done. Our current builds are exposing the flaws in that system. But if you are saying you don't see the problems, I'm doing a great job of hiding the flaws with my booking, so I will take that as a big compliment for sure. Because they are definitely there, whether anyone other than the guy booking sees them or not. No, I just disagree that there's any problem with it. I also don't want to see a revolving door of champions every season either, which will also become a problem going back & doing it the way you're proposing here again, because, for the same reason, we are so early in era 2. The tournaments are still the best, most fair, and viable, option to determine our contenders at this point... Plus, it's working just fine, and you're fabricating a fictitious problem that doesn't exist just cuz you're, somehow, bored already, after only 2 seasons, and not because there's actually any problem. 🤷
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Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 23, 2022 14:52:28 GMT -5
No takers on the dog?
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 23, 2022 14:54:09 GMT -5
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Mar 23, 2022 15:56:31 GMT -5
No, I just disagree that there's any problem with it. I also don't want to see a revolving door of champions every season either, which will also become a problem going back & doing it the way you're proposing here again, because, for the same reason, we are so early in era 2. The tournaments are still the best, most fair, and viable, option to determine our contenders at this point... Plus, it's working just fine, and you're fabricating a fictitious problem that doesn't exist just cuz you're, somehow, bored already, after only 2 seasons, and not because there's actually any problem. 🤷 The problem exists. We are getting a revolving door of underdogs that are sooo extremely underdog, our title fights are a joke (JJ vs. Ribas? Come on now...). You yourself keep talking about how you want rankings to matter. Well, for ManMMA 41 we have a 9th ranked fighter fighting for the belt before the 6th or 8th ranked fighters have.
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 23, 2022 19:01:50 GMT -5
No, I just disagree that there's any problem with it. I also don't want to see a revolving door of champions every season either, which will also become a problem going back & doing it the way you're proposing here again, because, for the same reason, we are so early in era 2. The tournaments are still the best, most fair, and viable, option to determine our contenders at this point... Plus, it's working just fine, and you're fabricating a fictitious problem that doesn't exist just cuz you're, somehow, bored already, after only 2 seasons, and not because there's actually any problem. 🤷 The problem exists. We are getting a revolving door of underdogs that are sooo extremely underdog, our title fights are a joke (JJ vs. Ribas? Come on now...). You yourself keep talking about how you want rankings to matter. Well, for ManMMA 41 we have a 9th ranked fighter fighting for the belt before the 6th or 8th ranked fighters have. That's your fault then, no one else's. 🤷 Figure out a better system to book the tournaments... It's not that difficult. Cuz YOU just arbitrarily deciding that "fighter X" gets a shot, isn't a system.
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Mar 24, 2022 0:04:44 GMT -5
The problem exists. We are getting a revolving door of underdogs that are sooo extremely underdog, our title fights are a joke (JJ vs. Ribas? Come on now...). You yourself keep talking about how you want rankings to matter. Well, for ManMMA 41 we have a 9th ranked fighter fighting for the belt before the 6th or 8th ranked fighters have. That's your fault then, no one else's. 🤷 Figure out a better system to book the tournaments... It's not that difficult. Cuz YOU just arbitrarily deciding that "fighter X" gets a shot, isn't a system. This suggestion is the better system right now. The problem in the tournaments cannot be fixed (unless we gave people byes...). I have outlined how this non-tournament method would work, and if you read it, you would see nothing about it is me " just arbitrarily deciding that "fighter X" gets a shot". The same process that goes into tournaments goes into this. It just cuts out a fighters ability to bypass people ahead of them in rankings. As you said, though, at this point it doesn't matter what I say, you've dug in with your stance, and no new proof or evidence will change your mind, so nothing further needs to be said. More detailed version for people keeping track of the technicalities (no one except me, and maybe Austin). For tournaments to work, we need about 9 viable #1 contenders (1 champion, 4 for "this" title shot, then 4 new guys for the "next" title shot). We don't have 9 legitimate title contenders right now in any weightclass, so tournaments are just 2 fighters for legit fighters to walk through for a title shot. Using the non-tournament system would basically mean, in theory, all 8 contenders got a title shot when they earned it ( through rankings), before needing to cycle through again. And that's assuming new people were not heavily upgraded to become contenders. If they were, that pool grows. Right now, with 12th ranked fighters getting title shots because of unclose-able tournament loophopes, rankings aren't being utilized as they should be.
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The Sandman
The Mad King
Black Belt (7th Degree)
Posts: 4,682
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Post by The Sandman on Mar 24, 2022 0:11:38 GMT -5
Figure out a better system to book the tournaments... It's not that difficult. In 10 years, I haven't come up with a better system to book the tournaments, so if it's not difficult, help me out. I'm all ears.
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Post by The Rocketmen on Mar 24, 2022 9:01:26 GMT -5
Spit-balling an idea hoping it may trigger another idea?
But what about something like...
Guys ranked 2-6 are the tournament fights. Guys ranked 7 to 14 can be matched for "climbing" Guys ranked 15 to 20 fight non-ranked fighters to see if someone cycles in?
So you have bottom end gate-keepers to the division. Mid-tier division fighters that are improving and cementing for future shots, and the elite that fight equal competition for a chance at title.
But anyone ranked 1-10 could also contend for a title shot OUTSIDE of winning a tournament. So like a Grand-Prix style tournament constantly sort of evolving, but also turning the bottom half of the top 20 into it's own little Grand Prix for elevation status.
All of this is probably already going on, but just throwing something at the wall to see if anything sticks (if ideas are being asked for?)
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 24, 2022 9:35:11 GMT -5
Figure out a better system to book the tournaments... It's not that difficult. In 10 years, I haven't come up with a better system to book the tournaments, so if it's not difficult, help me out. I'm all ears. In 10 years you haven't come with something better, yet in probably about 10 mins Rocky comes in and "spitballs" an idea that doesn't sound half bad. So yeah, I'm not buying that you even thought about it in 10 years, other than deciding on it yourself. 🙄🤦😂😂
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 24, 2022 9:49:27 GMT -5
Spit-balling an idea hoping it may trigger another idea? But what about something like... Guys ranked 2-6 are the tournament fights. Guys ranked 7 to 14 can be matched for "climbing" Guys ranked 15 to 20 fight non-ranked fighters to see if someone cycles in? So you have bottom end gate-keepers to the division. Mid-tier division fighters that are improving and cementing for future shots, and the elite that fight equal competition for a chance at title. But anyone ranked 1-10 could also contend for a title shot OUTSIDE of winning a tournament. So like a Grand-Prix style tournament constantly sort of evolving, but also turning the bottom half of the top 20 into it's own little Grand Prix for elevation status. All of this is probably already going on, but just throwing something at the wall to see if anything sticks (if ideas are being asked for?) Only problem with that if it was concrete, is then it's still just the same ranked 2-6 guys fighting in the tournament fights, and the same #2 and #3 guys winning the tournament. Idk why anyone is freaking out about it tbh. The #1C fights are the only interesting part of a tournament half the time, and if four fighters are all making a case for the tournament, then all four of them can be in line for title shots. Why waste a fighter's momentum against the other three when you have four worthy competitors? Not only that, but tournaments could still happen sometimes and they'd be more interesting when they did. As long as #1C fights are still happening, I don't see a big deal, but when guys like Andrei Arlovski win three straight fights in the GP, they definitely should get a shot at the belt instead of fighting two more times in a tournament.
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Post by Phoenix FC on Mar 24, 2022 10:40:20 GMT -5
Spit-balling an idea hoping it may trigger another idea? But what about something like... Guys ranked 2-6 are the tournament fights. Guys ranked 7 to 14 can be matched for "climbing" Guys ranked 15 to 20 fight non-ranked fighters to see if someone cycles in? So you have bottom end gate-keepers to the division. Mid-tier division fighters that are improving and cementing for future shots, and the elite that fight equal competition for a chance at title. But anyone ranked 1-10 could also contend for a title shot OUTSIDE of winning a tournament. So like a Grand-Prix style tournament constantly sort of evolving, but also turning the bottom half of the top 20 into it's own little Grand Prix for elevation status. All of this is probably already going on, but just throwing something at the wall to see if anything sticks (if ideas are being asked for?) Only problem with that if it was concrete, is then it's still just the same ranked 2-6 guys fighting in the tournament fights, and the same #2 and #3 guys winning the tournament. Idk why anyone is freaking out about it tbh. The #1C fights are the only interesting part of a tournament half the time, and if four fighters are all making a case for the tournament, then all four of them can be in line for title shots. Why waste a fighter's momentum against the other three when you have four worthy competitors? Not only that, but tournaments could still happen sometimes and they'd be more interesting when they did. As long as #1C fights are still happening, I don't see a big deal, but when guys like Andrei Arlovski win three straight fights in the GP, they definitely should get a shot at the belt instead of fighting two more times in a tournament. Not necessarily... Cuz if there is a guy/gal in the top 6 that's on a bit of a losing skid, the tournament berth would go to another fighter in the top 10 that isn't.
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Post by The Texas Rattlesnakes on Mar 24, 2022 10:51:57 GMT -5
Only problem with that if it was concrete, is then it's still just the same ranked 2-6 guys fighting in the tournament fights, and the same #2 and #3 guys winning the tournament. Idk why anyone is freaking out about it tbh. The #1C fights are the only interesting part of a tournament half the time, and if four fighters are all making a case for the tournament, then all four of them can be in line for title shots. Why waste a fighter's momentum against the other three when you have four worthy competitors? Not only that, but tournaments could still happen sometimes and they'd be more interesting when they did. As long as #1C fights are still happening, I don't see a big deal, but when guys like Andrei Arlovski win three straight fights in the GP, they definitely should get a shot at the belt instead of fighting two more times in a tournament. Not necessarily... Cuz if there is a guy/gal in the top 6 that's on a bit of a losing skid, the tournament berth would go to another fighter in the top 10 that isn't. Which is why it is broken. The #6 guy might have losses to the number one and two guy and never get a shot at the title, but a 9 seed will cuz he beats the 10, 11, and 12. Do you see what in saying or nah?
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